On SpyCast: Tracking the US-Ukraine relationship and its fault lines
Where did the relationship between Washington and Kyiv fracture? It does not start with this year’s Oval Office implosion between Presidents Donald Trump and Volodymyr Zelensky. And it won’t end there either.
This week’s SpyCast episode is a recording from a live panel I moderated on U.S.-Ukraine relations. As we began on stage at the International Spy Museum, a barrage of Russian missiles rained down on Ukraine’s capital, taking innocent lives. Earlier that day, as part of a peace proposal, Trump was urging Zelensky to recognize the illegally seized Crimean peninsula as Russia’s — and Zelensky categorically refused.
The event was inspired by the new podcast series Escalation, and featured its journalist co-hosts Anastasiia Lapatina and Tyler McBrien, as well as former National Security Council spokesperson Emily Horne and former Defense Attaché to Ukraine Kipling Kahler.
We discussed President Joe Biden’s hesitation to both arm Ukraine with heavy weapons and allow strikes into Russia, the implications of Trump’s pause in intelligence and his pressure for a peace deal, the future of NATO with limited American participation, how Russian disinformation has shaped U.S. perceptions, and what lies ahead for Ukraine in a time of wavering support.
There is now a sense of disillusionment toward the United States and its democratic ideals. “Ukraine used to be one of the most pro-American countries in the world. We used to joke that we're probably the only country in the world that wants American imperialism,” Anastasiia told the crowd. “And now we're like, ‘You know, that's kind of awkward because you guys don’t have your shit together.’”
For her part, Nastia has hope that this war and its atrocities will teach future U.S. leaders to listen more carefully to Ukrainians.
The video gives you the full conversation.
Episode length: 35 minutes
Listen: On Spotify | On Apple Podcasts